Monday, 7 December 2015

A Guide to NIOD


OK here's the thing - I have loved everything I have tried from Deciem. Grow Gorgeous, Hylamide, Hand Chemistry etc - all excellent. There is no doubt in my mind that Brandon, the founder, is at the forefront of science in products and he talks in a way that very few people I have met in the industry talk. Passionately, intelligently and with love and excitement.

I have not had as much success with NIOD as I have with the rest of the range, but this is purely, 100% because of my own limitations and frankly, because the range confuses me. I like to know exactly how something works, when it works and how quickly it works. NIOD has no interest in my problems, it just wants to get on with the job. It cares about the science, but I think that sometimes the science overshadows the 'PLEASE GOD JUST TELL ME HOW IT WORKS!!!'

I know I'm not alone. As NIOD's success has grown, I am asked more and more often about their products, and I found myself unable to answer properly so I asked Brandon, a man who by his own admission will use 597 words when one will suffice, for 3 sentences on each product. I asked politely, but I did say 'THREE SENTENCES BRANDON. THREE.' ;)

Being the total gent that he is, he entertained my impertinence.

'Beauty science is on the verge of an explosive level of innovation and the next 5 years are going to be revolutionary.'

CAIS - Copper Amino Isolate Serum
1. If you're going to use 1 product from NIOD, use this one.
2. It focuses on skin health and not lines/wrinkles or specific signs of age.
3. It has a very high long-term value to the skin.

MMHC - Multi-Molecular Hyaluronic Complex
1. If you're going to use 2 products from NIOD, MMHC should be the second one.
2. It shows visible results faster than CAIS.
3. It provides visible anti-aging value quickly and in the long-term but, unlike CAIS, its long-term value to skin health and quality is limited, if any. Basically MMHC is a much more advanced version of Hylamide HA Booster. (SCORE! CH)

HV - Hydration Vaccine
1. Use only if skin has lost hydration. I do not believe in hydration when it's not a necessity.
2. Seals in supplemented and naturally-present NMF instead of "hydrating" the surface.
3. Is a very pro-silicone product. Silicones are extremely misunderstood, extremely underrated and are extremely advanced today. The silicons in HV are very advanced and cost many times more than many active peptide technologies used in skincare.   (I'M BEGINNING TO LOVE THIS MAN. CH)

FECC - Fractionated Eye Contour Concentrate
1. Is not meant to targets signs of eye aging that are common to the rest of the face. For these signs, CAIS and MMHC should be used under the eyes as well.
2. FECC focuses largely on eye-area-specific aging including puffiness, darkness and fine dynamic lines. Deeper lines cannot be fixed topically except when they're static which MMHC will help with. Hollowness also cannot be fixed topically (except with temporary topical filling-type spheres which offer very minimal improvement for a very short time).
3. Is low in viscosity. NIOD is absolutely against eye creams. They do not absorb well and actually cause water retention/puffiness.

ELAN - Ethylated L-Ascorbic Acid 30% Network
1. Is not part of the core NIOD regimen. It should be used at nighttime only.
2. Is for those who are educated and users of topical Vitamin C.
3. It's 30% Vitamin C in a stable antioxidant network that is more advanced and 5% more concentrated than Hylamide C25.

LVCE - Low Viscosity Cleaning Ester
1. Dissolves impurities instantly without water.
2. It's ideally wiped and rinsed to allow for a single-step cleaning.
3. Leaves a comfortable ester cushion on the skin. This will not clog pores and will help everything applied to penetrate better. If left alone without other topical treatments on top, this cushion will disappear and actually balance (not trigger or reduce) natural sebum production.

NIOD overall:

1. All you really need is CAIS for skin health and quality. The other products are basically better forms of skincare but CAIS is care for the skin's health.

2. If you use everything, the order should be:
AM: LVCE, CAIS, MMHC, FECC, HV
PM: LVCE, CAIS, MMHC, FECC, ELAN (If extremely dry skin, follow with HV)


PHEW. Right. Now that I'm a lot clearer, I'm off to get it all on my face again.

Thank you so much Brandon! (I have asked for an update on Photography Fluid - will add to this post hopefully tomorrow - Brandon likes a good question - hit him up in the comments. ;) )


Further information on NIOD including all prices is available in detail here: niod.com/products

222 comments:

  1. Thanks for this Caroline. I have just bought a kit with sample (although a little really does go a long way due to the fluidity) sizes, and this has helped clarify some of my perturbedness - it doesn't take much, the abbreviations for a start...

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    1. Hi Jan– Thank you for giving us and NIOD a chance. We know the explanations and abbreviations are complicated. This position is merely a reflection of our respect to science that itself is very complicated. To simplify the extent of technology available today in ways that beauty marketing does today was very difficult for me to accept; NIOD is truly a very personal project. To summarize all the complexity into words such as "anti-wrinkle cream" would not have done science or NIOD justice. :-)

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    2. Goodness I did not expect a reply from Brandon, thankyou so much for a personal reply, it is my aged brain that skids off the information rather than a criticism of your information on your website, which I find helpful and informative, I just can't quite get to grips with it, again me rather than you!

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  2. Thanks Caroline! How generous of Brandon to simplify things for us. I'd love to run a quick question by him....with respect to MMHC, I think I understand his 3 sentences to say that it is designed for use in conjunction with (and not in place of) Hylamide. Is that right? (I'm completely obsessed with Hylamide, have used it 2x per day, every day, since Caroline told us about it - so if MMHC can amplify its effects, I'll stockpile that, too!)

    Thanks to Caroline and Brandon.

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    1. Hello Suzanne- Smiles from Canada! Hylamide brings a significant amount of science but its aim (communication, effects, pricing and distribution) is geared toward a broad audience who seeks accountability in skincare. NIOD targets a narrower audience who is open to discovering truly the edge of topical science and whose focus is more on longer-term skin health and less on shorter-term results.

      In this context, it may seem odd to read what I am about to write, but Hylamide generally would offer visible results more quickly than NIOD would because its focus is intended as such. NIOD's focus is more on longer-term health of the skin which approaches the various signs of ageing at the very root: the health of skin cells; while Hylamide has a very specific technology to counteract each sign of ageing. The two approaches are very distinct. Hylamide is about targeting the problem itself; NIOD is about starting at the root.

      In very short terms, if you use MMHC, using Hylamide SubQ Anti-Age would offer additional shorter-term results but in one year's time, you would largely have the same skin condition if you just used MMHC alone. (I assumed your reference to Hylamide was to SubQ Anti-Age; if you meant the Low-Molecular HA Booster, then you absolutely do not need to use it if you use MMHC).

      I and we are at your disposal.

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    2. Hi Brandon - I think it's remarkable that you're engaging with us directly in a forum like this and I'm so impressed with your approach.

      In her review of Hylamide SubQ Anti-Age, Caroline referred to its "immediate gratification effect" and I'd echo her sentiments in that regard. I also really appreciated that the product was so affordable and easily attainable for me in the Northeast US - so, high marks on all counts for execution. That said, I love the idea of incorporating a parallel, longer-term strategy with NIOD. Not sure about your odds of a narrow audience in light of The Hirons Effect ;)

      Sincere thanks and best wishes to you and Deciem.

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  3. Very intrigued! But I have to wonder, when one company is producing multiple skincare lines...Why not just have everything in one line? I invested in the Hylamide Eye product after reading your review, wondering how one would integrate that (and products from other lines) with Niod products. Or we're meant to get everything and use Niod exclusively?

    Super interesting, can already tell I'll be buying, but this has raised more questions for me...

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    1. Hi Jackie :-) I am hoping my response to Suzanne earlier offers some guidance on this topic. It's very difficult to establish brand values that fit everyone. Perhaps I can offer a little bit more background on how NIOD was formed.

      Hylamide was launched to offer the latest in technology, with each technology designed to target a very specific sign of age. We wanted not to make dishonest promises, we wanted to reach a broad audience and we wanted our audience to understand easily our communication. I was always asked if I used "your own products" and the answer was always a definite "no" because I was in the lab every day and could push technology far more for myself and our team. I didn't need quick results, didn't need to have easy marketing materials and didn't need broad distribution. It was like asking a chef if he would order from his own menu; he wouldn't; he would make something more unusual for himself.

      NIOD was created as a personal project- a response to "do you use your own products?". NIOD is not designed to be presented in mass channels not because it's expensive but because it would be misunderstood. It's designed to focus on longevity instead of individual issues, which means more patience is needed than in the case of Hylamide. The audience who appreciates this approach and is patient is rare which is why NIOD's distribution is kept very controlled. I am NIOD's audience and we created NIOD for everyone who would be in my position- in a sophisticated lab working with chemists every day.

      If you're already using Hylamide SubQ Eye and you enjoy it, I would suggest that you continue using it and only include CAIS from NIOD as it's the most important step in the offering. Personally, I always have CAIS, MMHC and Hylamide SubQ Anti-Age (which also goes around the eyes) with me when I travel- really cannot imagine a day without them.

      Please feel welcome to reach out if I can help further.

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    2. Thanks, Brandon! I fear I am so addicted to trying different products that dedication solely to NIOD could be difficult for me to muster. But so appreciate you taking the time to explain all this. Refreshing approach in the industry, and one I hope sets a trend.

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  4. I recently purchased the Hylamide kit at the Deciem Black Friday sale and I'm looking forward to try. I'm definitely bookmarking this for future reference!

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  5. Bless you Caroline for this. I am one of those that asked about this.

    Brandon,
    1.What exactly do you mean by skin health? Collagen production? Barrier function? Elasticity?
    2.On the Vit C. That is a lot of Vit C! I am excited to try it but will it help with old acne scarring that is pitted? Listening to Caroline has greatly improved the look of my skin but that one area of my cheek still looks funky.

    Thank you for making beautiful products at an affordable price. Your hard work is really appreciated.

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    1. Hi Clara! Please see my comments below.

      1. By skin health we are referring to creating an ideal environment for the skin to function optimally. When the skin is healthy, collagen production, barrier function and elasticity as you have mentioned are all happily in place. Anti-ageing product, including Hylamide, offer technologies to target each of these functions individually. For example, a very new range of peptides in Hylamide is able to increase both collagen and HA production but this increase does not address the root causes of why collagen or HA production was limited in the first place.

      CAIS (and NIOD's view generally) is to approach the root cause instead of individual issues. I will highlight this approach in CAIS. CAIS contains 1% pure copper peptides. Copper peptides are in human plasma and attract copper in to allow tissue repair functions. While the level of copper in our system stays stable as we age (and is diet dependent also), the level of copper peptides drops by nearly 70% into our 60's. So the copper is actually available in the body but cannot be taken in to be used for ongoing repair of small things that are constantly going wrong (stress, hormones, pollution, sugar levels, etc.). By supplementing copper peptides, we're focusing on the support of skin health instead of targeting a specific issue.

      Please note: a) The 1% concentration should not to be confused with large percentage numbers used by brands referring to active complexes like Matrixyl that themselves contain very small amounts of peptides. 1% is an extremely high concentration of pure peptides and I have never seen any amount close to this number in any skincare. b) CAIS contains absolutely no copper and I discourage the use of copper in skincare it oxidizes and it's unnecessary (we have a lot of copper in our system).

      2. For acne scarring, the best from our range that I can suggest is Hand Chemistry Retin-Oil. I know it's a body oil but it contains an incredible retinoid that is far more effective than retinol and causes no irritation. It's able to reduce visible old scars which most treatments cannot offer. We will have facial products with similar technologies soon as well. I would not recommend Vitamin C products for skin that was or is prone to acne unless serious acne treatment is also included in the regimen.

      We're here if you need anything further.



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    2. I second this. Can Brandon please expand upon what he means by 'skin health'.
      Thank you!

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    3. Hi Mishido13- My response to Clara is now posted. If my explanation still leaves a gap, please let me know and I will elaborate further. :-)

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    4. Brandon, thank you for the explanation.

      I find the science behind all this fascinating (my partner is an epigenetisist, so I ask him endless questions on cell communication etc) and the results I have had personally from Hylamide has been amazing.

      When (or to whom) would you recommend using CAIS 5% and CAIS 1%?

      I've used the Hand Chemistry 1% Retinol oil on my face as a last step to ''seal' everything in. Would this be how you recommend this?

      Fantastic, amazing products Brandon. Thank you for developing these and bringing them to the market. X

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    5. Hi mishido13- Thank you for so much DECIEM love.

      I generally would not recommend using CAIS 5%. It will offer better results in the first 2-3 weeks but within a few months, you would be at the same position with either 1% or 5%. I would really only suggest 5% for periods of extreme recovery when skin immunity or quality has been truly low as a result of trauma.

      Retin-Oil is really amazing on the face. In fact, the reason it was developed for the body initially is that I had signed a non-competition agreement that did not allow me to do anything face related at the time. There are variations of retinoic technologies coming under the face ranges soon but Retin-Oil can absolutely be used on the face and you will continue to see improvements even after months of use. It actually doesn't "seal" anything in. It contains a very strong push-pull technology that allows for better penetration. The order you're applying is ideal. :-)

      Hug from Toronto,

      Brandon

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    6. I need to ask, why don't you recommend the vitamic C prpduct for people with acne scarring /combattimg acne? I'm curious why because I suffer from acne and have heard quite controversial things. That high amount of vitamin c and niacinamide according to research improves post acne marks but I'm not sure... could you please recommend products for acne prone skin and products to heal scne other than the retin oil? (P.s. teen skin 19-20). Thanks haha

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    7. Brandon,
      Thank you for this. Can you please elaborate on this?'I would not recommend Vitamin C products for skin that was or is prone to acne unless serious acne treatment is also included in the regimen.'

      1.Why?

      2.What kind of serious acne treatments are you speaking of? I use my acid toners and salicylic acid and other than the odd pimple at the start of my cycle my skin is clear.

      Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions. Reading through the comments has been illuminating.

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    8. Oh and I feel the need to add that I am dark skinned/African living in the tropic. Not sure if that changes the answer but that is why I am attracted to Vit C;to help with pigmentation issues and brighten my skin

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    9. Same person here, also wondering, wouldn't copper in CAIS cause the Fenton reaction if used too frequently?

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    10. Hello everyone- I am sorry for the gap in my responses as yesterday was very demanding.

      @Robert- Vitamin C itself can make acne conditions worse in some people. If you are only facing acne scars but no active acne, then Vitamin C wouldn't hurt but new retinoic compounds (like the one in Retin Oil) is simply more effective on such scars. Niacinamide does improve acne but its effect on acne scars is minimal.

      @Clara- Please see my response to Robert. Vitamin C, especially at the early phases of application, can make acne conditions worse. If you're using Vitamin C for its antioxidant value, there are many better options in the world today. If you're using it for its collagen support value, CAIS is light years ahead. For acne scars and acne, retinoic compounds always win; in fact, Vitamin C can and generally does make acne worse. I am mainly referring to casual pimples. Very serious acne is a whole different issue and topical (Retin-A) or internal medications (Accutane) are extremely good at fixing the issue. I generally do not recommend AHA/BHA as they cause inflammation and their short-term value is less than the inflammation they cause. With reference to wanting to brighten your skin, Vitamin C has some but limited value in this case. It balances pigmentation but does not really lighten natural pigmentation. As the area of visible skin lightening is very poorly served in the beauty industry (most things don't work since the bans of hydroquinone and mercury salts which are harmful), I encourage you to explore our Advanced Serum under the WhiteRx brand.

      @Robert- Copper peptides do not contain any copper at all and so a Fenton reaction doesn't become a consideration. :-)

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    11. I am not really interested in lightening;just looking radiant and glowy/fading pigmentation vs overall lightening. What about the Hylamide glow serum? Would that work?

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  6. Delurking to say thank you for this post! I've been working my way through Hylamide's products & am of course curious about NIOD as well.

    Puzzled about the order of the Vit C serum, however (& this goes for Hylamide's range as well) - aren't Vit C serums typically applied before, not after hydrating serums?

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    1. Hello Toby- As both Vitamin C offerings in Hylamide and NIOD are free of water and oil, the order of application is not as important but we would recommend as the last step before a moisturizer (or any form of surface barrier) and only at nighttime. These products are designed almost as a nighttime masque that contains a push-pull technology to stay "wet" for a longer period to offer extensive exposure to Vitamin C.

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    2. Hi Brandon,

      Thanks for the explanation! Is the Ethyl-Ascorbic Acid used in your products pH dependent/is there a wait time between applying the Vitamin C & a moisturizer? Thanks again!

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    3. Hi Tony- As the product itself contains no water, the concept of pH doesn't really technically apply. Once applied to the skin, the Vitamin C will start to interact with skin water content which would then slowly trigger pH fluctuation but you generally don't need to wait to apply any product other than NIOD CAIS (or anything contains copper peptides) after application of the product. Please note that any high-molecular form of hyaluronic acid would become slightly thick and "stringy" if it comes in contact with acidic pH so if immediately after application you apply a HM HA, it may make the texture different. I generally discourage use of topical high-molecular weight HA anyway (I have written a longer response on this thread on this topic). :-)

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    4. Hi Brandon,

      Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions!

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  7. Thank you for this. Now I am very curious about the CAIS. Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

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  8. I have been more than impressed with the few things I've tried from the Hylamide range, so I'd definitely be interested in trying these. It's nice to have this post to refer to as the sciencey side of things really does go a little over my head sometimes and I prefer things explained in simplified terms first and if I want more info I will look deeper into it. Sometimes my brain just won't brain. Lol.
    The Beauty Bloss

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  9. Thanks for this, just bought Hylamide SubQ for the first time but interested in trying Niod in the future.

    If like to ask about the Vitamin C, my understanding was the optimum concentration was much lower than 30% and advice this there were no benefits and more risk of irritation?

    As a former Scientist would also love
    to see citations on the website :)

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    1. Hello Lynsey- Thank you for trying Hylamide. Vitamin C has been a big part of our focus not because it represents a skincare revolution but because the ingredients (or the subject rather) has been abused.

      There are three forms in which Vitamin C is used in skincare today:

      1. Liquids containing L-Ascorbic Acid:
      These serums all contain water to solubilize L-Ascorbic Acid. They all turn orange over time which means the Vitamin C changes from an antioxidant to a pro-oxidant as it has begun oxidation. At best, the ingredient becomes useless to the skin. Many brands own patents on making VC in this format stable but these patents don't prevent the oxidation that is very obvious in the colour change. (Please note a patent offers exclusive use of an idea; it does not validate that the idea works but the consumer creates this association.)

      2. Non-Liquids containing L-Ascorbic Acid:
      In these formulations, either the VC is suspended as powder in silicone bases (so no water) or the powder is actually supplied separately. If suspended, the majority of the VC is trapped within the silicone that is applied on the surface and only a small % will come into contact with the skin. Of this %, a maximum of about 33% can dissolve within the water content of the skin to be used and so from a 20% VC formula, 5% maybe exposed to the skin and 33% of 5% which is less than 2% is actually potentially used. If the VC is supplied as a separate powder to be mixed, there are two issues: a) powder weighs far less than water by volume and cannot be measured in ml as supplied. To achieve a 10% formula, you would need to fill your palm with VC powder and add liquid which means most such products would last less than 1 few days; b) the oxidation begins at the time of mixing anyway; it's just less oxidation since the mixing occurs at a late stage.

      3. Formulations Derivatives of Vitamin C
      These ingredients include Magnesium/Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate (MAP or SAP), Ascorbyl Palmitate, Ascorbyl Glucoside and others. These technologies are stable but release small amounts of Vitamin C so a 10% solution of MAP (which is high), may release 2-3% of pure Vitamin C at best.

      The problem common to all of the above, first and foremost, is that VC is very cheap and can be obtained even at retail (nutrition shops) for $30/KG to last a lifetime of topical application so I am not sure why many of these formulations are so expensive.

      NIOD ELAN and Hylamide C25 both use Ascorbic Acid that has been ethylated so that it is far more stable in water but neither product uses any water at all in any event since we have solubilized the VC without the use of water which we have provisionally patented despite my general disregard for commercial value of patent filings in skincare.

      The problem you have highlighted is two-fold. In case 1 above, the acidity of any formulation with high VC will be very strong (pH of around 2) which would cause irritation. Since none of our Vitamin C formulas contain any water, the concept of pH doesn't apply and the slow release of Vitamin C into the skin overnight will discourage any interim irritation as a result of a very acidic pH.

      The second issue you highlighted around the higher concentrations of Vitamin C refers to studies that have shown Ascorbyl Palmitate in higher concentrations can be harmful to the skin. No such reference is ever made to pure Vitamin C. And in any event, since there is no water in the formulation and technically the formula is a slow-release nighttime masque in liquid form, the basis of its function is exposure to low amounts of (a lot of) Vitamin C overnight. Ultimately, any slow-release approach refers back to how much VC there is actually to release and this exact point is why a higher concentration is actually better.

      Sorry for the length! It's partially your fault as you said you are a former scientist :-)

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    2. After apologizing for the length, there's actually a few bits more... :-(

      Having said all of the above, we wanted to make the world of topical Vitamin C better, but there are many technologies today that offer far better collagen support and better antioxidant value that any form of Vitamin C. Vitamin C still offers some level of radiance and pigmentation balancing (very different to bleaching technologies) and so this specific reference is what we encourage VC for. For overall anti-aging purposes, I absolutely would encourage CAIS/MMHC ahead of any Vitamin C product within our or other ranges.

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    3. Thanks for a really thorough answer Brandon, definitely interested in trying more of your range.

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  10. New topic Caroline: cheap silicones and advanced silicones and where to find them

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  12. I have been using CAIS and really can't notice any difference in my skin. What effects should I be looking out for and how long should it take to see a difference? Also did I understand correctly when it said it could be used around the eyes?

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    1. Hi Bella2015- I addressed this topic a bit earlier in the comment. Hylamide SubQ Anti-Age and/or NIOD MMHC are designed to target specific aspects of ageing directly and so you would have visible results from these products earlier than from CAIS. CAIS targets a very core ongoing repair function that encourages skin health at its lowest levels. CAIS is the only product that truly matters to me personally for better ageing and longevity but it's not designed to provide rapid results like SubQ Anti-Age and/or MMHC.
      Please let me know if my explanations earlier offer more clarity on this topic. :-)

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    2. Hi Brandon, Thank you for your response and the detailed responses to other questions too. I read the information above and that is good to know that seeing quick results isn't expected with this product. I look after my skin and find that normally creams etc that everyone sees amazing results with quickly don't seem to happen with me.

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  13. Ohhh, thanks so much! I'm super curious about NIOD, but never understood them either! That comes as great help :)
    (although I do have the Photography Fluid... got as a "gift I could choose" - not for me, but for my Photography works after reading Ruth's review. Didn't notice huuuge difference in the models' skin to be honest)

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  14. I really really like the photography fluid. Makes a great primer and gives a nice glow

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  15. Thanks so much Caroline and Brian! This has cleared up a lot of my questions - though I too wonder if the NIOD and Hylamide ranges are perhaps targeted at different people? Is NIOD merely for the science-obsessed?

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    1. Hello Unknown- I have addressed this topic earlier on and the comment has now been posted. If there's still a gap, please let me know and I will be happy to elaborate further. Smiles from Canada!

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    2. Your previous answers have cleared up my questions - thank you so much for taking the time to personally respond!

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  16. I've been using the MMHC,FECC and the Hylamide Eye. I've been more than pleased. I have the CAIS at home but haven't started using it.As I am no spring chicken, I will probably add the ELAN.Thank you for another great post.

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    1. Hello Jan- Thank you for trusting NIOD. If you are using all of the above, especially CAIS, I am not sure ELAN will offer any further support unless you have very significant dullness or imbalanced pigmentation. From a collagen support or antioxidant perspective (what Vitamin C is known for), CAIS and MMHC offer far far greater value than any form of Vitamin C. :-)

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  17. So interesting! How would one integrate the NIOD regimine with Rx retinoids, bleaching creams, and topical acne treatments like Aczone?

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    1. Hi Elizabeth- Retinoic Acid can be used at nighttime, ideally at least 30 seconds after application of CAIS (and MMHC if used). Any acid will destroy CAIS within seconds but CAIS only needs a maximum of 30 seconds to be utilized so any application afterward would be ideal.

      As for bleaching creams, none of the controversial ingredients like hydroquinone will present a problem. If you are using anything that contains MAP, Kojic Acid, Azelaic Acid, Lactic Acid then please wait the 30 seconds above, ideally before the application of Retinoic Acid (assuming in cream form; if in gel form, application step is less relevant).

      Other bleaching products such as licorice extracts or herbal treatments are generally not very effective but do not represent any known interaction with CAIS.

      Aczone is a new use of an older medicine but for acne treatment. There is not sufficient information to say conclusively whether it presents an interaction but as long as you leave a 30-second gap with the application of CAIS, very few things can impair the efficacy.

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    2. Hi Caroline & Brandon,

      Would you please clarify adding CAIS into a CH approved regime.
      i.e Cleanse, acid tone, spray hydrate, serum, moisturise.

      Typically, I would have assumed CAIS could be applied in the serum step?
      As specified above any ACID would destroy CAIS, I also couldn't imagine applying P50 or the like over the top of CAIS.

      I would love if you guys could please clarify the correct steps, so we are getting the benefits.

      Thank You

      Nerida

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    3. Hi :-)

      Any acidic pH will destroy CAIS completely in an instant. However, CAIS itself is absorbed and utilized extremely quickly. Acids, however, take longer to work and go through a pH adjustment after application to the skin. For this reason, please always apply CAIS first, wait about 30 seconds (even 10 seconds is enough, but to be safe), then apply any acidic compounds. Please never apply an acidic compound before CAIS; if you do, the wait time would be significantly higher (30 minutes to be safe).

      So the steps would be:
      Cleanse (assuming not acidic)
      CAIS
      - 30 seconds
      Acid Tone
      Spray Hydrate
      Serum
      Moisturize

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    4. So this leads me to ask another question. How often should we use CAIS a week?

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  18. I am loving Hylamide products and really keen to try niod. The photography fluid looks gorgeous on the skin on days I manage to get it applied evenly. The texture is really not ideal. I wish they would reformulate it to make it easier to apply and blend on the face. What I am really dissapointed with though is the different pricing of products for non US residents. I live in NZ so these products on my browser cost more as opposed to if I was living in the US. I really don't like that they advertise free global shipping but then hike up the price of the products. Caroline I hope you can raise this question with Brandon because I have emailed Deciem and did not receive response explaining the discrepancy in prices. I would have preferred if they were more transparent and charged a shipping fee instead.

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    1. The Photography Fluid blends well with other products which can help it to apply more smoothly. You could try adding a drop or two to your moisturiser or primer. Failing that, the Hylamide Photography Foundation is more user friendly with a very similar result.

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    2. I live in Oz and buy my NIOD from VictoriaHealth.com. shipping is reasonable and as it's shipped to outside the UK, you get a 20% savings by not paying VAT (its automatically deducted). There's an NIOD starter kit on there now for half price £25 instead of £50 and is great value. I've been using NIOD, the full range for about 5 months now and my skin has never looked better. I get comments of 'your skin looks flawless' from close friends and even my hairdresser. I don't even use foundation anymore. Just NIOD and tinted sunscreen. Could not be happier with the results.

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    3. Thank you, Meu, for commenting.

      We genuinely do offer free international shipping. The small pricing difference in different regions is generally as a result of two things: a) retail prices in certain countries include VAT whereas in the US and Canada they do not; we have to pay duties and such VAT on import and so if you do compare pricing with the US, you have to include these important components. In the US and Canada, depending on the state and province, sales tax are charged on top of the amount whereas in other countries, this amount is either included in RRP or not charged at checkout. The second matter that affects such pricing is currency fluctuations. While the product pricing maybe presented in US dollars for some countries, we do incur costs in local currency for shipping and import that are subject to constant exchange rate changes. We cannot update our pricing every time a change occurs and so have left a margin of tolerance to allow us not to be affected by fluctuations.

      I see that Tricia has provided a comment on Hylamide/NIOD PF which is exactly what I would have written. Thank you, Tricia. <3

      If you need anything else, we are here.

      Delete
    4. Thanks for the tip Jonty, CAIS and kit ordered!

      Delete
  19. Hi Caroline

    Could you ask Brandon to clarify what NOID products can be used with Hylamide and which ones replace Hylamide?
    Some are obvious (HV replaces low molecular HA booster. ELAN replaces Vit C booster)
    Does MMHC replace Hylamide Sub Q?
    Does FECC replace Sub Q eye? Or can these be used in conjunction? (Does anyone else think of Father Ted with FECC?!?!)
    CAIS seems to be the unique product; could this be added into the Hylamide regimen? If so, would this be before or after Hylamide Sub Q?

    Sorry for so many questions! I've pretty much got all the Hylamide range and am impressed with the results at the price point of these products. Just curious how to incorporate NOID.
    (And I second Suzanne; could Brandon clarify what he means by 'skin health')

    Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi mishido13- There really aren't very direct replacements within the ranges other than MMHC offering many similar functions to HA Booster but with far more focus on HA production versus supplementation.

      C25 and ELAN do actually differ. C25 does have technologies specifically to target skin pigmentation whereas ELAN offers more Vitamin C in a more sustained form since it's in an renewing antioxidant network. If your main use of Vitamin C is aging with radiance being secondary, ELAN would be ideal. If radiance is a primary concern, C25 would be ideal.

      There is no replacement for SubQ Anti-Age in NIOD. Technically, if you use CAIS/MMHC, you don't need anything from Hylamide but CAIS/SubQ Anti-Age can offer quicker results with the long-term benefits of CAIS assuming below-surface hydration isn't a key concern. I personally use CAIS/MMHC and SubQ Anti-Age but also recognize that it's too many steps, it's wasteful and I am a bit insane.

      To be more clear, if CAIS/MMHC/SubQ are used all together, results in the first week and first month will be better than if CAIS alone was used, but in 6-12 months, you would have the same results with just CAIS since its focus is overall skin health whereas MMHC/SubQ focus on specific signs. MMHC alone will offer significant shorter-term visible results. I just add SubQ for more intense immediacy but it really is an unnecessary addition. Many of our team use CAIS/SubQ Anti-Age and swear by it.

      FECC offers slower, longer-term results. SubQ focuses a bit more on earlier results and a bit less on later results. CAIS/MMHC should be used around the eyes anyway. Unless there are pigmentation and/or puffiness (or upper eyelid elasticity issues), no eye treatment is actually necessary.

      If you like Hylamide and if you don't have eye-area pigmentation or puffiness, really an ideal combination would simply be CAIS/SubQ Anti-Age everywhere to simplify things. :-)

      Delete
    2. Thank you for the full reply Brandon. Much appreciated!
      And I don't think you are insane for using a three step serum. We 'Caroline Clones' (oooh. that should be trademarked. It's the UK version of the Kardashians, but we are Cooler ), don't bat an eyelid at multiple steps. I'm definitely going to incorporate CAIS and add in MMHC. I'm loving Sub Q and Sub Q eye, so will probably continue with these (and I have three of each as back ups)

      Thank you again!

      Delete
  20. I've been using Hylamide and NIOD since they were launched in the UK because I loved the Hand Chemistry products so much I started to really trust the Deciem brand (I love the HiF hair washes too - if you love Grow Gorgeous, Caroline, I recommend trying HiF, especially Volume Support, which is amazing). It's great to have Brandon's advice on the products - I haven't been using CAIS and MMHC under my eyes, but I will definitely start now. I know CAIS is the core product (and I'm very happy the new formulation means it doesn't have to be kept in the fridge - I'm on my fourth bottle but first unrefridgerated one!) but I think my favourite product is the Hydration Vaccine as it is the perfect base for makeup. My foundation goes on smoothly and lasts all day instead of disappearing by early afternoon. I can't wait for the new products to come out next year. And thank you, Brandon, for the Black Friday NIOD bundle - what a good deal!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Tricia- Many people have criticized everything that we do and going through all of it is worth the connection with the few who recognize my and our dedication. Thank you <3

      Delete
  21. Hi Caroline/Brandon!!
    Txs for this Review. I only have one question. Being 53, will anything work? Thank you for an honest answer.... Greetings from Sweden!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Greetings from Canada! The simple answer is CAIS/MMHC will make everything better from the root up. If there are very specific issues you wish to address (everyone has different problems regardless of age), I am happy to explore the larger range within NIOD and Hylamide with you.

      Generally, by 53,

      - collagen is reduced and the amount is affected by lifestyle (CAIS will help directly and indirectly)
      - hyaluronic acid is reduced and the amount is NOT affected by lifestyle (MMHC will help)
      - elastin is reduced, especially in the neck/lower face and upper eyelids. (NEC and FECC will help)
      - copper peptides drop by around 60% impairing ongoing repair functions (CAIS will target specifically)

      I welcome you to explore our ranges and we're here if you need anything further.

      Delete
  22. This sounds fascinating! I haven't tried anything from Deciem but now I AM THERE! Can't wait to try these.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Hi Brandon and Queen Caroline!
    Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but when do I use the CAIS, when I use my acids and hydrating toners in my routine? Is it:
    Cleanse
    CAIS
    Acid
    Hydrating toner
    etc etc

    Or
    Cleanse
    Acid
    Hydrating toner
    CAIS
    etc
    etc

    Thank you for writing this post - have been looking at the products on Lookfantastic for a while :D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Micha- CAIS is very sensitive to acidity. Ideally:

      Non-Acidic Cleanser
      CAIS
      - wait 30 seconds
      Any acidic products
      Any hydration products

      Smiles,

      Brandon

      Delete
  24. Please can you tell me how CAIS fits in with the use of a retinol? Can you use both? Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Absolutely. Please apply CAIS as the first step after cleansing and wait at least 30 seconds before the application of any Retinol-containing product (or other forms of retinoid). :-)

      Delete
  25. Thank you Caroline and thank you Brandon for elucidating further in the comments section: I'm fascinated by this range and am intending to buy CAIS now (was not aware of the range previously). My one question: do I still acid tone & hydrate tone? ie, does CAIS go on at what would normally be serum stage in a Hirons Routine? Caroline makes no mention of acid tone in the main post in terms of NIOD routine (and I ADORE acid toning so am loathe to give it up!!). thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi :-) As long as you apply CAIS as the first step after cleansing and ensure that there is at least 30 seconds in between the application of CAIS and any acidic products, there will be no compatibility issues :-)

      Delete
    2. Maybe I am being silly, but won't acid toning after applying CAIS wipe away the CAIS?

      Delete
    3. I had the same question Rhi had.

      Delete
    4. Hi both :-) CAIS absorbs extremely quickly (it is extremely low viscosity) and it acts as an attractor of copper (why the reference to copper peptides). This attraction mechanism happens almost instantaneously (it's not a slow-release exposure which would be counter-productive in this case). As long as you wait about 30 seconds before acidic product application, the vast majority of the benefit has already occurred with that application. :-)

      Delete
    5. Brilliant, thank you for replying :)

      Delete
  26. Hi Brandon,
    I've read that LMW HA actually isn't good for the skin and this has put me off using products that contain it. Please can you clarify? http://barefacedtruth.com/2015/03/31/hyaluronic-acid-yes-size-does-matter/
    Thanks, Alex :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello I <3 Beauty!

      When I started DECIEM, I established a policy that no one in our lab or creative/marketing is to come from a beauty background. I have met many beauty employees who accept that skincare is just marketing and I believe this mentality is the reason nothing changes in this business. But, personally, moments like this one make me proud that we have bio-chemists leading our lab who don't look at beauty science but true science. You asked for it! It's long and complicated.

      This article suggests by gathering sporadic sentences from unrelated documents that low-molecular HA will increase inflammation, disrupt skin like micro-needles, increase cancer rate, transfer cancer cells faster than normal by various unidentified biochemical reactions- basically it's the worst substance on earth except that it also happens to exist in our body naturally in varying molecular weights, high and low! It's basically similar to writing an article that suggests green tea compounds will make green tea plant leaves deteriorate. There's absolutely no science that follows from any of this note. I will, however, get into HA detail a lot more as we have really developed some deep expertise with HA materials in our lab and I am well aware of what overall reading misled the author of this article to write broad conclusions like he has.

      HA under the skin (and in the body) serves as a lubricant and cushion. A large portion of it is in the dermis. HA that has been used in beauty products has been presented as a hydrator though HA has no "hydration" role within the skin. It's a cushion underneath and a lubricant within the body. But the larger sizes of HA cannot penetrate the skin so they literally form a film on the surface that makes you look smooth right away and as HA attracts water, the film can even draw water out of the top layer of the skin so that you develop an addiction to HA products (becoming more dry when washing off).

      As soon as you start targeting below the skin surface, everything becomes more interesting because chemistry and biology are very different- and more specifically, the specific size of HA will make a very dramatic difference in not only its chemical function (say feeling of hydration) but also its biological trigger (how the body reacts to the molecule). This in effect means that various molecules with very different physiological effects will have the same INCI designation on the ingredient listing and this phenomenon is actually most apparent when it comes to HA and HA-like compounds.

      The article's only credible comment (which probably led the author to conclude a million things) is that LMHA induces an inflammatory reaction while HMHA induces an anti-inflammatory reaction. This very point is actually what makes LMHA much more than just a hydrator. Its competition with HMHA (both of which are in the skin) actually leads to a state of balance called homeostasis- basically the inflammatory and anti-inflammatory responses compete, creating balance. The conclusion the article makes would only be valid if there was only LMHA present and no HMHA, in which case our bodies would have naturally been in an inflammatory state from birth as both forms are in the body.

      We take the supplementation of different grades of HA to a new level by also including precursors of HMHA. Since we cannot physically get HMHA in but we can get LMHA in, supplementing HMHA wouldn't help. The precursors actually work to cause your own production of HMHA to then further encourage this state of homeostasis, in addition to multi-layer hydration within various depths of the skin. This very reason is why MMHC actually targets many signs of ageing and is not really just a "hydration serum". Basically, the precursors (1 in Hylamide, 5 in NIOD) trigger HMHA production while we supplement LMHA topically to encourage this state of "peace" and to hydrate at multiple depths.

      I am happy to help further. I can't imagine a world without topical HA. :-)

      Delete
    2. A small additional note on the above: LMHA is a wide term. Extremely low weights of less than 2kDa is too small to have any benefit to the skin and this size can penetrate into areas where no HMHA is present to cause inflammation. We never use any size under 10 kDa and go all the way up to HMHA for various skin depth targets. :-)

      Delete
    3. Hi Brandon,

      Thank you very much for replying. Much appreciated!
      I've just re-purchased CAIS - such a great product.
      Hope you have a lovely christmas. :)

      Delete
  27. Thanks Caroline and Brandon, I too was a little confused.
    I have been using CAIS for about 2 weeks now and I started seeing a difference after about 5 days. I had some kind of spot/acne scars on my cheeks that just wouldn't go away (I've even been seeing a medical dermatologist), and this is the only thing that seems to finally be getting rid of it! It's also improving the general condition of my skin. Very happy to have found a product that works!!

    ReplyDelete
  28. Brandon, what products would you recommend for melasma?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Elizabeth- I wish I could have better news but most pigmentation-related treatments fall short of expectations. We have tried to concentrate a tremendous amount of technology into a new brand called WhiteRx (Advanced Serum) which does achieve a few shades of lightening overall but the result will likely not be as noticeable in the case of melasma because you're not just fighting pigmentation but also the contrast of pigmentation. In other words, the overall lightening maybe significant but you may not see so much difference when the contrast ratio of the dark/light areas remains largely the same.

      The top 2 products within our range that can help are WhiteRx and Hylamide C25. Otherwise, I would always encourage CAIS as it impacts many unrelated aspects of visible skin issues indirectly and it may help.

      I wish I could be more promising. <3

      Delete
    2. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question!

      Delete
  29. I hadn't really heard about that line before, but I would love to get my hands on some of the stuff now. Especially the CAIS, I am a big believer in promoting skin health.

    Linda, Libra, Loca: Beauty, Baby and Backpacking

    ReplyDelete
  30. I began using NIOD in October because I was curious about the hype (anyone who is a regular Victoriahealth.com customer will know *all* about NIOD!). Curiously I had low-ish expectations because it sounded too good to be true. To date I have purchased everything listed above plus the lip bio-lipid concentrate and the neck elasticity cream, (which looks and smells a bit like marmalade to me!).
    I feel I did experience an almost noticeable, visible improvement in my skin in terms of clarity and smoothness . However, after an initial peak, I cannot see any additional improvements. I think this is the long term gain that Brandon is referring to (“longer-term health of the skin which approaches the various signs of ageing at the very root: the health of skin cells;, rather than quick fixes”). On that basis I will continue to use all the range as I think the benefits are cumulative and to some extent unseen on a day-to-day basis but perhaps over a year, or five years, regular NIOD users would have ‘better’ skin. However, I will admit to being disappointed that FECC has not had a dramatic effect on my slightly crepey eyelids ( I was hoping for a miracle there!).
    I am eagerly anticipating some of the new products that are due to be launched next year.
    Oh yes, an interesting observation about LVCE. Initially, I really found it to be a disconcerting and not entirely pleasant product to use. It has a slight ‘avocado’-ish smell to me and it feels slightly oily. I used to be very concerned about the ‘residue’ left on my skin However, one day I dropped an open bottle of LVCE in my bathroom and when it bounced it splashed across a wall that has matt emulsion on it. The ‘grease’ marks it left behind were hideous and I actually assumed I would have to re-prime the wall and paint over it. However, there is now no sign of the marks at all and it has indeed evaporated (“If left alone without other topical treatments on top, this cushion will disappear and actually balance (not trigger or reduce) natural sebum production.”). Unlike the residue of an oil-based cleanser that I accidentally splashed on the wall and that has remained, and will need to be painted over (drat!).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi :-) Thank you for supporting NIOD!

      On CAIS, you have noted what I was going to say already. On FECC, for the condition you have described, you don't need FECC. Please use CAIS and MMHC around the eyes. FECC is mainly able to target dark areas and puffiness- and much less so other aspects of ageing that CAIS and MMHC target very well. Thank you for observing what happens with LVCE! It really isn't like oil cleansers :-)

      Many good things are coming. You may know we recently launched Neck Elasticity Catalyst (NEC). A separate use of this product for me personally is on my upper eyelids as this area needs elasticity support (FECC offers this function to some extent; NEC is a powerhouse for it).

      <3

      Brandon

      Delete
    2. Hi Brandon, thank you for your fantastic advice. I do have the NEC - I described it as reminding me of marmalade ;-) but it wouldn't have occurred to me to use it on my eyelids to provide elasticity support (but yes of course, it makes perfect sense)! I am very excited about the new products.

      Delete
  31. Hi Brandon and Caroline! Thanks for doing this post and inviting questions.
    Brandon,I remain confused about layering products - any,not just yours.I understand how certain ingredients don't work in a mix,but if products are applied on skin one after the other it doesn't make sense to me.Is the absorption rate that rapid that products don't cancel each other out when applied? I'm sure that most people are not waiting between each step in the morning. I even imagine that with each step I'm smearing away the previous one. And yep,sometimes I seriously contemplate dumping it all together and slapping it on. (I know, I know ... but at least I'm honest.)
    I'm 60,and only started getting serious about skin care in the last year.I have no issue with my wrinkles,but I hate the sun damaged spots that won't go away. I am considering laser treatment as I think I'd actually save money in the long run and get results. However, I'm also wary. Do you recommend any particular products of yours for this issue?
    Like others, I'd like to know more about the silicone you mentioned as it has always been disastrous for me. And I might have missed it,(and will read several more times but I wanted to bang this out early enough to hope for a reply) moisturizer?
    I hope you'll enjoy the ride,Brandon. I think you and your team are gonna be rather busy. :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi C :-) Thank you for giving us this time.

      Ingredient do interact but in the case of CAIS, this fact is particularly factual. To keep things simple, never apply any acidic product before CAIS and always wait 30 seconds after CAIS to apply any acidic products.

      My life is easier because I never use peeling acids (I don't believe in inflammation for the short-term moderate results) so I simply do as I wish in terms of order of application.

      What I would recommend is:

      CAIS AM/PM
      MMHC AM/PM
      Hydration Vaccine AM
      Either WhiteRx Advanced Serum (AM and PM) or Hylamide C25 (PM only) for spots.
      NEC AM and PM only if you have neck/lower-face elasticity concerns

      Please note CAIS/MMHC should go around the eyes and on the neck as well. NEC is only for elasticity concerns if they exist (not entirely age related; it basically correlates to how much facial movement occurs as well).

      Spots are difficult to address. We have tried very hard to bring some truly advanced science into WhiteRx and C25 but please have patience with spots. Even if they lighten, their contrast may disallow you to appreciate the difference and you may give up too easily. Most spot products do very little today. :-(

      Otherwise, big smiles!

      Brandon

      Delete
    2. Brandon,I'm so grateful for your response! It's been fun and enlightening to read through the other questions and your answers,and I'm looking forward to using your products and learning more.

      Delete
  32. Hi, to echo another question - if using CAIS and MMHC (in that order) currently but want to add in Hylamide sub Q, what is the best order to apply? Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Jennifer– You are using the 3 products that are always essential to me personally :-)
      CAIS, then MMHC, then SubQ Anti-Age. All of the above go around the eyes as well. Unless you have pigmentation around the eyes and/or puffiness (not hollowness) SubQ Eyes is not necessary.
      Please note that very very small amounts of MMHC are needed in this case as the main difference between MMHC and the forms of HA in SubQ Anti-Age is the multiple HA precursors and only the most incredibly small amounts of these precursors would do the trick.

      Delete
  33. @carolinehirons Hirons help !! I’m having an allergic reaction to one of the following ingredients : camellia sinensis leaf extract, Chamomilla Recutita Flower Extract, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Flower/Leaf/ Stem Ext, Citrus Auranitum Bergamia (Bergamot) Fruit Ext, Caprylyl / Capryl Glucoside, Polyglyceryl-4 Caprate, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate, Glycerin, Aloe vera leaf extract. I get really hot red, irritated, itchy and tight skin from one of these or maybe a combination of them. Are any of these known allergens?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anyone can develop allergies to anything really, but my first guess would be lavender. Have a talk to a Dermatologist if you can, they can to patch tests to confirm :) Good luck!

      Delete
  34. Dear Brandon,

    Does NIOD offer anything targeted specifically at acneic/combination skin, alongside addressing (anti)ageing issues? Thank you for your time in these comments, the knowledge & insight are greatly appreciated.

    Best,
    Kata

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Kata- We don't offer anything for acne-prone skin across our ranges for the single reason that we have not been able to innovate above what is already available on the market.

      My suggestions are:

      If you are able to tolerate the initial irritation, Retin-A (retinoic acid) will definitely clear acne and maintain clear skin.

      For a less invasive approach, Benzoyl Peroxide is effective but it is not allowed over the counter in the UK. It is readily accessible in North America and around the world so you could order online for shipment to the UK. PersaGel 5 is an example.

      Dapsone is a newer approach which is available in the UK. It has less history for acne but studies seem to be credible.

      Aside from acne, from the perspective of having combination skin, Hylamide will soon launch Pore Control which will balance out sebum production really well and quickly :-)

      Delete
  35. Hi! I might be a bit late to comment, but I was wondering about the appropriate age to start using NIOD products, especially CAIS? It sounds so wonderful and after googling reviews I feel an overwhelming need to buy it. However, I'm "only" 25 years old. I used to jump to the strongest potions all the time until I realized I was doing more harm than good to my skin by using strong anti-ageing products at 22, and I've become a bit more wary as of late. Is it too soon to start using CAIS, or could I derive some benefits from it even now?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Katrina– If I were you, I would use only CAIS and nothing else. Copper peptide levels in plasma start to drop at around age 17. You really do not need any "anti-aging" products. Just CAIS will be more than enough to help maintain skin quality.

      If skin texture becomes an issue in the future years (which is sometimes unrelated to ageing), Hylamide SubQ Anti-Age is the only other addition.

      Delete
    2. Hi Brandon,

      thank you for a quick answer! :) I will keep that in mind.

      Delete
  36. I have been using the FECC for several months now and I am BEYOND impressed! IT DOES EXACTLY WHAT IT PROMISES. Yes! I did just use all caps. It's that good. Listen, I am a nobody from the American Midwest with slightly more than 100 followers on my IG account. Not a "guru," an "expert," or a social media queen. Just an everyday woman who happens to be obsessed with skin care. Even so, DECIEM has taken the time to answer each and every one of my questions about their products, give me advice as to what I might use, and even follow up and ask me how I like what I'm using! Who does that anymore? They are brilliant. I mean to try all of the DECIEM products suitable for my skin type (dry, dehydrated, over 40) as my budget permits. I am absolutely in love with this brand! (And no, I'm not paid to endorse or speak about anything. If only, lol!)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This note almost brought tears to my eyes. I have shared it with our team who really are passionate about what they do and this feedback nurtures this passion immensely.

      A hug from the Northeast to the Midwest,

      Brandon

      Delete
    2. Hello there, Brandon! Thank you for your reply, your excellent team at DECIEM, and, most of all, thank you for the SCIENCE! I have exchanged several instagram DMs with your team and they are truly amazing people. Honestly, I have purchased products from brands that charge much, much more than yours and haven't received a tenth of the care and customer service from them. I am truly impressed. You've made a customer (and a friend) for life!
      PS: In one of your previous comments, you mentioned a non-compete. I know the other brand, and have used their products. They are good, but DECIEM is better. That's not a "fangirl" speaking, just an objective comment from someone who has used (and paid for) both. I still have half a tube of the "Brand X" HA product, but I stopped using it when I discovered Hylamide, which, IMO, is a far superior product. Well done! You can't keep a good person down. At least not forever.

      Delete
    3. Hi Unknown :-)

      Thank you so much for such kind words about our team <3

      Thank you for sharing your experience on HA. The developments in that brand are amazing; technology has simply moved on and it's really important to continue to innovate. If Apple introduced an iPhone today to remain as is for the next 10 years, they wouldn't survive. In beauty, somehow formulations remain on the market for up to 40 years without people questioning if they're using 40-year-old technology.

      As you may already know from NIOD CAIS, our approach is to reformulate every time we can make anything better (even if that happens to be within just months). It's a nightmare to do for us and for retailers but every other business in the world (technology, fashion, restaurants) is constantly evolving their offering and beauty must be the same.

      Big smiles from Toronto,

      Brandon

      Delete
  37. (Sorry if my comment is being sent twice, there's something wrong with my computer and I don't know if my comments got through already.)

    Hi! I might be a bit late to comment, but I was wondering about the appropriate age to start using NIOD products, especially CAIS? It sounds like such a wonderful product and after googling for more reviews I feel very tempted to buy it. However, I'm "only" 25 years old. I used to jump to the strongest anti-ageing products available all the time after I turned 20, but soon realized I was doing more harm than good to my skin. I've become a bit more wary nowadays and turned to gentler products. Am I too young to start using CAIS, or could I derive some benefits from it even at my age? I'd be super thankful for any answer. :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi :-) Your comments did come through twice and I have responded to the earlier one.

      Smiles,

      Brandon

      Delete
  38. I have been using the CIAS and MMHC for about 6 months now and last week I started on the LVCE and the ELAN *high five for speaking in tounges lol*
    . I won't lie it does take a while to get your head around the products and what they do for your skin but once you see and feel the difference in your skin you will want to know so much more!
    Good skin is an investment. I find the products really go the extra mile,
    I believe these 4 products have totally taken my skin from being ok to looking fabulous at 47 .. and I will be investing in some more soon!

    ReplyDelete
  39. WOW!!! Thank you Caroline and Brandon for the detailed breakdown! Very much appreciated!

    ReplyDelete
  40. Rub, pat, swipe or dab?
    Please tell us the preferred way to apply.
    I was introduced to your range via Sali Hughes Beauty forum where you have some number one fans and who told us about your Black Friday offer! I got the hand and NIOD bundles.
    A big thank you also Brandon to Tara in your Customer Service team for all of her prompt help when I first used the lip contour but without reading how to actually use it! All sorted now.
    Thank you too Caroline for all that you do and the way you do it! Jules, UK x

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It looks like I am not the only one who loves Tara :-))) Thank you for your kind words.

      Delete
    2. How about this blog for timing?!

      Delete
  41. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  42. I love the PHOTOGRAPHY FLUID, OPACITY 12% and use it often. I mix a drop in with my moisturizer and it hydrates perfectly plus adds a glorious glow !

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  43. I would love to try CAIS as I am in my 20s and definitely after long term effects rather than quicker short term results. However, my concern is that if I am being honest with myself, I know that the chances of me using the same product twice a day every day for the rest of my life are unlikely. I enjoy skincare too much...does this mean that if I won't get anything from CAIS? Can it be used in conjunction with other products/for short bursts (say, 2 months on, 2 months off) etc

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Rhi- I love CAIS and I absolutely know for certain that I will not keep using the same product for the rest of my life. I say this fact because technology will evolve and I will want to continue to use the latest advances and that is ultimately what NIOD stands for. We are very comfortable reformulating and introducing new technologies, as we have done even within months of launching a product. If Apple introduced an iPhone today to last the next 20 years, the brand would die. I am not sure how beauty brands can justify maintaining the same products on shelf for decades with pride. That is not our objective and it is truly what makes us abnormal.

      Having said all of the above, I would still encourage CAIS as the core item. For more immediate benefits, Hylamide SubQ Anti-Age improves skin quality within days and you will definitely notice the improvements.

      Delete
  44. Wonderful thread today! Brandon, you're a superstar for answering so fully.

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    Replies
    1. With pleasure, Christina! And thank you again Caroline and everyone for this honour.

      Big smiles from Canada,

      Brandon

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    2. Brandon! I can't believe you replied to me too! Take a deep breath and have a more restful day today! Big smiles from the UK back at you and your team!

      Delete
  45. This sounds right up my street but I already have lots of products including serums etc. Is there one product from this range that I should try ( am guessing it's the CAIS) and how will it sit between acid toning with my p50 and my regular serum/ moisturiser / spf? Not sure I want to add another step but it sounds interesting!

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    1. Hi Zah- If you're happy with your current regimen, I wouldn't suggest a change other than introduction of CAIS 1% as the first step after cleansing.

      If you prefer to establish trust with our brands and want to explore results very early on, I would suggest trying Hylamide SubQ Anti-Age which will make a remarkable difference in overall quality within 5 days.

      Delete
    2. Hi Brandon
      Many thanks for the personal reply. I am happy with my current regime and have stockpiled some of the products so I plan to stick with them. But yes - the high science in your range is very appealing to me. I was wondering if I can start by alternating the CAIS or hylamide ( or can I layer one over the other) with my current serums. Will this "day on - day off" technique be ok or does the skin only benefit from CAIS if used twice daily? I have read that CAIS is quite "watery" - this sounds good to me as an additional layer between my acid toner (Biologique Recherche) and my serum ( skinceuticals / Själ). How long would it be best to let the CAIS absorb before applying the next serum? And (sorry for so many questions) is the CAIS the best one for facial firming / lifting? I know copper peptides are supposed to be good for firming. Thanks again. Z

      Delete
    3. Hi Zah- CAIS can be used once a day but even if used twice a day will not interact with your regimen. It is extremely low viscosity (lower than water). If your serums do not have acidic pH, you can apply them right after. If they do, please wait about 30 seconds after CAIS.

      If your main interest in firming, I would instead recommend Neck Elasticity Catalyst (can be used on lower face, neck and upper eyelids for visible firming). CAIS will offer general improvements as opposed to a focus on firming.

      Delete
  46. Hi! How do you decide to get CAIS 1% vs. CAIS 5%?
    Also, planning on trying the Grow Gorgeous!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Katie :-) Definitely CAIS 1%. CAIS 5% is really not necessary unless your skin is going through a specific recovery. Within a few weeks, CAIS 5% will produce better results but after a few months, you will have had the same overall improvement from either.

      Grow Gorgeous Hair Growth (Density) Serum Intense and Density Shampoo are the two products in the range I cannot say enough about. :-)

      Delete
  47. This post has really grabbed my interest! Brandon, if you're still lurking, I have two questions, and I've scrolled through the conversations above so hopefully I'm not asking something that's already been posted.

    You said silicone is a product that's greatly misunderstood. Will you explain? I was never staunchly on either side of that debate.

    Also, you mentioned your company is against eye creams. How interesting! I have problems with eye puffiness and I've noticed they increase when I use eye creams. I rather liked Lisa Eldridge's theory that excess moisture gets pocketed into the skin under the eyes when you use too much eye cream. What are your thoughts?

    Thank you! And Caroline -- I'm enjoying your blog! Loved the spot-popping post! ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Leigh- I was actually just about to leave the thread and saw your post.

      Silicones represent a very large class of very pure, well-understood molecules. When people say they don't like silicones, I would parallel it to someone saying they don't like restaurants because they didn't like one restaurant.

      Out of tens of thousands of pure silicones available today, 3 were at some point identified as possibly harmful to some environment under some conditions. Interestingly, the one identified as the worst (it really isn't) is used in over a million beauty products in distribution today.

      There really are no "bad" silicones to say conclusively. There are just a few for which some uncertainty has been raised but nothing has been conclusively identified as "bad". But these few have discredited an entire class of exceptional molecules that can do truly amazing things from surrounding other molecules or pigments, improving playtime, texture or quality of products, sealing both hydration and Natural Moisturizing Factors within the skin and a long list of hair improvement functions.

      As for eye creams, I am absolutely against them because they prevent optimal absorption of technologies and they lead to increased water retention at night as you have identified. I truly believe healthy skin doesn't need any "cream" on top of it but I am particularly against eye creams.

      :-)

      Brandon

      Delete
  48. I also have the photography fluid and love it! I suffer with rosacea and am wondering if the CAIS and MMHC would be good for my sensitive skin. Am currently using prescription Finacea Gel.

    Thank you so much!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Kimberly- I would definitely suggest Hylamide Sensitive Booster as a priority. CAIS is always going to be my recommendation but it wouldn't directly improve signs of rosacea. Sensitive Booster is specifically designed to target these signs well and quickly. Please note that the product counteracts the signs not the cause of rosacea and I am not aware of any treatment that truly manages to get to the root of rosacea effectively but you'll be able to achieve and maintain a more even look and feel to the skin with the booster. :-)

      Delete
  49. This makes for brilliant reading! I am a long term Victoria health customer absolutely love reading Gill's newsletters! I am currently using some of the NIOD products mainly CAIS and MMHC and so far I've been blown away by how effective they are. I have tried most high end skincare and there really just seems to be something very very special about this line (I intend to buy more!) And I think Brandon has been amazing to answer all these questions so fully. Also fantastic post Caroline (as always) really informative and interesting!! Xx

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you, Lara! Comments like yours are the reason innovation stays alive. Innovation is the biggest enemy of financial success because they're opposite objectives. Without an audience like you, no one would innovate. I am confident Gill feels humbled to be reading your comments as well. <3

      Delete
  50. Thank you Caroline and Brandon for the incredibly informative post and thread!

    Brandon,
    I would also like to know more about using NIOD to deal with 30 year old, acneic skin. I gather using CAIS will improve the overall health and so should improve the skin's ability to deal with bacteria and inflammation, but are there any products you would suggest? Alternately should I avoid any products in the line? I saw you mention above that caution should be taken when using Vitamin C on acneic skin, could you please elaborate?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Beverly :-)

      Vitamin C can make acne conditions worse and so I definitely would not recommend ELAN.

      Acne is not at all related to the ability of the skin to fight bacteria; in fact acne is generally a condition present in younger, healthier skin. The cause is the entrapment of bacteria. Sebum function and surface consistency can affect acne. LVCE, CAIS, MMHC, FECC and PF will not affect acne in anyway. HV, NEC should be used only on the lower neck. You do not need all of the above at all. I am only highlighting in reference to acne. My suggestion is that you incorporate only CAIS and/or MMHC and continue with other acne treatments as we do not offer one. You don't need anything else really. If you use makeup, LVCE will get it off completely. If you do not use makeup, just use water to cleanse. Cleansers generally make skin worse in the longer term.

      For acne itself, retinoic compounds (new and old) work well. Retin-A 0.1% is the strongest, will lead to initial discomfort but will clear things up soon. If the condition is very severe, Accutane will fix it permanently but with initial side effects.

      For the oil, soon we will have Pore Control under Hylamide to reduce it. Currently Pore Delete hides it well but doesn't offer longer-term value.

      I hope I have covered what you needed.

      Delete
  51. Hi, which of these products are pregnancy/breastfeeding safe? Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Sarah- None of NIOD products or technologies would have any issues with pregnancy. In the case of Lip Bio-Lipid, please discuss with a doctor before use.

      Delete
  52. Okay so I think I get it. My skin is SUPER dehydrated, I don't have any oil going on but I am prone to breakouts, I don't think I'm dry but definitely more that way than oily. Is HV good for me despite not being dry dry?
    I'm 24 and in my opinion I have a serious case of leather face! (Fine lines all over forehead and around the eyes, lots of texture, dull, super tight feeling, rough) I am sheet white so pigmentation is my sister, I am currently using D-pigment on post acne scares after I cleanse with shu uemura ultim8 CO then follow with eye cream and moisturiser. I desperately need a routine to save my skin, I'm scared I'll look 80 but the time I'm 30 HELP :'(

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi :-) It sounds like you're lacking "water" content but have oily skin (the industry refers to dry skin confusingly in reference to both but very oily skin can actually be dehydrated). I suggest a non-surface hydration treatment such as Hylamide SubQ Anti-Age or Hylamide HA Booster. They will address the issue better than any NIOD product because what you're experiencing is likely short-term and is caused by other factors.

      I would suggest CAIS for overall improvements which will likely address the dehydration over time.

      For any area where you try feel like there's a "leather" texture, you may wish to try HV but based on your description, I am confident Hylamide will offer better results within 5-10 days.

      :-)

      Delete
  53. I visited the Deciem site and had a look at these products, I found them really interesting and I will definitely try some since I heard about them from Caroline - although I will wait for an actual product review from her. What ruined it a bit for me in the sense that it decreased their credibility is that the product reviews on the Niod site look far too much like they are written from the marketing person. You go to cult beauty for example and there are good products with zero reviews. In Deciem / Niod you have articulated reviews, covering every issue the buyer might have. I wonder if anyone else read them and got the same feeling. Ana

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Ana- NIOD has a very narrow audience that loves to discover. We receive emails in excess of 2,000 words expressing so much love for NIOD that I myself can't express so deeply. The reviews are genuine, they are very a from educated early-stage audience and they're not paid-for in anyway. NIOD has attracted some very influential press over the past few months and the editorial management behind the press is known to be very cynical and I am confident their view will raise your assurance level.

      I hope we can gain your confidence in the near future and remain at your disposal.

      Delete
  54. I've just read through the entire thread of questions and answers . It's been totally fascinating and informative, and even though I am now a reasonably experienced user of the NIOD range, I have learned a lot today. I am even more excited about NIOD than I was before! Having re-read my first post earlier today, I realise I may have sounded quite subdued about NIOD, when actually I was very, very impressed by the early visible results I saw in my own skin. I can't say there has been another significant incremental improvement that I can *see* but my skin feels smoother and more resilient, and I just sense that it's healthier. I also want to echo someone else who said that HV makes a perfect base for foundation. It is like a primer but with added benefits. I wish Brandon had been around years ago, I can only imagine how much better my skin would look now!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What a beautiful comment. Thank you so much for these really beautiful words. <3

      Delete
  55. Brandon: What product(s) would you recommend for skin that has been damaged due to radiation treatment?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Marge- It's very difficult for me to comment as very little studies have been done on improvement of visible ageing related to radiation. The initial redness can be made better quickly with Hylamide Sensitive Booster but it is a small bottle for the face. On body areas, please explore both Hyaluronic Concentrate and Retin-Oil under our Hand Chemistry range both of which can help with visible damage.

      Aside from the visible conditions specific to the radiation (like redness), CAIS and Hylamide SubQ Anti-Age generally improve most things and I always recommend them without hesitation :-)

      Delete
  56. Just to clarify, Brandon, my current cleanser which is rinsed of with water after massaging into the skin, contains (among other things) lactic acid, salicylic acid and retinol. If I want to use CAIS, should I stop using this particular cleanser?

    Thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge. I am really enjoying this Q & A thread.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Maggie- The content of the cleanser is not necessarily reflective of the pH of the cleanser. INCI listings are very confusing. For example, I can prepare a formulation with 30% lactic acid but neutralize it so the pH becomes neutral. What you have is actually then just a salt formulation that is not acidic at all and I can then market it as a 30% lactic acid formulation that causes no irritation (because it doesn't do anything).

      I am not suggesting your cleanser doesn't do anything. I am suggesting that it's very difficult to determine its pH. However, most cleanser formulations are unable to accommodate very acidic pH levels so you may be OK.

      In summary,

      - Safest bet: use a non-acidic cleanser. If you don't use makeup, I am generally against cleansers as they make the skin weaker. You can just use water as I have done all my life. If you use makeup, LVCE really takes things off in an instant.

      - Likely OK bet: Use your current cleanser. Wait about a minute after drying before applying CAIS.

      Smiles,

      Brandon

      Delete
    2. Thank you, Brandon. I have been so brainwashed by the fairly sloppy use of the word "acid" in the beauty industry that it didn't even occur to me that you meant pH. I like the way this cleanser makes my skin look & feel so would like to keep using it but also intend to give your NIOD cleanser a try. Thank you, again.

      Delete
  57. This thread is brilliant! So informative & reflects so well on NIOD & Deciem in general. Love!

    ReplyDelete
  58. Thank you Caroline and Brandon! What an amazing post and thread! This is exactly the info I'm interested in and is unique to Caroline's Blog!
    I too purchased Hylamide when Caroline first posted about it and last week could not resist you amazing Black Friday offer... So am not only impressed by the products themselves, but also by your pricing and your service!

    I did browse through the NIOD site, but could not figure out what would be beneficial for me, so this is extremely helpful in making an informed choice.

    Hope I'm not too late to ask a retinol related question. If I wish to incorporate CAIS in my regime, how would I do that in combination with a 1% retinol product I use a few times a week (which I use for long term benefits - I will be 50 soonish but have very good skin so no specific concerns).

    Also - if you could still expand on your silicone answer above. I understand they are not harmful per se, but I find I react to products that use them (like EL ANR or Vichy Aqualia).

    Thank you both, again!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Ayelet :-) If you're happy with Hylamide, the only addition I would recommend from NIOD is CAIS. Hylamide is already extremely advanced and some have suggested that Hylamide is a lower-grade version of NIOD– This is not at all the case. They are different approaches. SubQ Anti-Age is on my face every single day.

      CAIS can be used with Retinol or retinoids in general. Please apply CAIS first and wait 30 seconds before application of any retinoids. If you do like Retinol, I really do encourage you to talk to your doctor about upgrading to a prescription grade but low concentration Retin-A which will offer you far better results than Retinol which is worth a very short period of manageable irritation (at 0.1% for acne, the irritation is really horrific but at 0.01% - or diluted by yourself to such level - will produce amazing texture improvements without too much irritation. You may also wish to explore Retin-Oil in Hand Chemistry for the whole body.

      If you're reacting to products that contain silicones, with extremely few exceptions, you are likely reacting to something else in the products. Silicones are truly very unlikely to cause irritation.

      Big smiles,

      Brandon

      Delete
    2. Thank you so much for your detailed reply, Brandon! I will definitely CAIS in the new year.
      All the best!

      Delete
  59. Hi Brandon, in case you are still reading later today. I have a question about hyaluronic acid and glycerin. I've read that HA may not be a better humectant than glycerin. What are your thoughts on that?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. I wanted to add that your replies have been amazingly informative; I live for intelligent science-based writing. I may have impulse purchased CAIS and LVCE today.

      Delete
    2. Hi Sara- HA is definitely not a better humectant than glycerin because HA really isn't a humectant at all. HA that is high-molecular weight (most products on the market) forms a film on the skin surface that makes you feel smooth and amazing but can actually draw water from the skin into the film as HA attracts water. HA that is low-molecular weight builds water density within the lower skin surface. Glycerin simply hydrates in a way by "sealing" things in. Glycerin is a true humectant which has very short-term value to the skin but is also very sticky and tacky on its own. :-)

      Delete
  60. I have been using NIOD since August and gradually adding to my regime as products became available. Initially, I must admit I was in two minds - I do like instant gratification (who doesn't?) and missed the feeling of the oils and serums I had been using. However, I felt I should give the products a fair trial and I would say, the last few weeks my skin has never been better - in fact, so much so, that I have changed my industrial strength foundation to really light coverage!! My skin feels so balanced now and always well hydrated. I have started to use the vit C ester at night and this has really given my skin a glow that I have never seen before. I do not use any other products at night other than the NIOD regime and my skin still feels really moist in the morning. AM I do use an SPF 50 under makeup. I really am loving this range and appreciate the fact that it is not crazily priced - I will certainly be continuing and look forward to even more improvement (I should add that I am 61 so any product that works that well has my total respect.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you, Jenni, for your trust in NIOD and us.

      SPF 50 is too high an SPF and provides no true additional benefit above an SPF 25/30. Within about 3 hours, the value of any sunscreen will have diminished regardless of the SPF so the SPF number tells you how much multiple of protection you have during this period. 25 is truly more than enough and products with lower SPF are generally much more comfortable to use. SPF also refers only to UVB protection. Please consider UVA protection in your sunscreen purchases.

      Big smiles,

      Brandon

      Delete
    2. Thank you so much for your advice, I really appreciate it and will certainly be looking into changing my sunscreen.

      Delete
  61. Found this on barefaced truth.com
    Hi drjohn,

    Would you be prepared to give an opinion on Deciem’s NIOD products, in particular the Copper Amino Isolate Serum (see link below):
    http://niod.com/product/copper-amino-isolate-serum-1pct-15ml

    Is this safe to use? I have a vague memory of reading about dangerous human growth factors in cosmetics/skincare, and the potential risks involved in stimulating epithelial cell growth. Please forgive my ignorance but do copper peptides increase cell turnover, and is this dangerous?

    Many thanks for your time and attention.

    Ros


    drjohn
    MAY 25, 2015 AT 11:52 PM · REPLY
    Gly-His-Lys (GHK) and their copper complexes, are physiologic (occur naturally in humans) and have demonstrated anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects. Effects on wound healing, tissue repair and skin inflammation have been demonstrated – possibly mediated through stem cells and their paracrine secretions (growth factors). GHK has a strong affinity for copper. The GHK-Cu complex is found in human plasma. But the unbound GHK is fully functional on its own. As you may know, there is considerable controversy concerning copper peptides whether slathering the copper bound variety is necessary, or even harmful. Many people report copper peptide “uglies” which could relate to this factor (the copper bound variety is NOT natural to skin). Both GHK and GHK-Cu are quite polar and absorption through the epidermis is minimal. Copper peptides do stimulate fibroblasts to produce more collagen, but they do so indirectly by affecting of number of regenerative cytokines. It is not a “single growth factor” treatment like EGF in isolation. GHK is not directly mitogenic, and is not associated with cancer. In fact it has positive effects on caspase, growth regulatory, and DNA repair genes that are associated with cancer suppression.

    The only issue I have with copper peptide is the copper part. The GKH part is clearly associated with many of the same good things as mesenchymal stem cells cytokines and growth factors.

    Having said all this I notice that this company puts low molecular weight HA into its cu-GHK product. I would stay away from this (sends all the wrong biosignals) and look for a different source.

    Hope this helps, Ros.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think those guys have their own products that they want you to buy. I take their "advice" with several huge grains of salt.

      Delete
    2. Hello Julie-

      I am unsure who Barefacedtruth.com is but it does seem they are indirectly promoting some brand somewhere by seeming to be an organic website. Their website domain WHOIS information is set to private so they are paying extra money every year to avoid people finding out who owns this domain. However, since you have posted this response, I will comment.

      First and foremost, this response is just a large run-on sentence that is very difficult to understand. It appears overall that Dr John doesn't like copper peptides and for this dislike, he would need to communicate with God because copper peptides are in human plasma (how they were discovered), they attract copper from your body in to be utilized and they decline by 70% by age 60.

      He is suggesting that copper peptides are "copper-bound". There is absolutely no copper in CAIS. Copper peptides are called as such because they attract copper ions not because they are made of copper.

      He mentions controversies that are around copper because it oxidizes (and actually is unnecessary because we have copper in our system and most people are not copper deficient). This position has nothing to do with copper peptides.

      He mentions copper peptides cannot be absorbed through the skin which is complete nonsense as they are extremely small and highly water soluble. In fact, the density of CAIS is less than water. A simple way to look at things is actually ideal: if it goes in and you don't see it and can't rub it off, then it has gone in!

      It appears he is promoting Epidermal Growth Factors so I suspect one of the brands they are indirectly promoting contain these compounds. We have nothing against EGF.

      Please see my comment earlier on low-molecular HA as I have addressed this topic very clearly.

      We do not hire beauty chemists. And we do not hire doctors. Doctors do not study biochemistry. They do not create medicine; they prescribe medicine. They do not study, create or understand chemistry and, despite the marketing brands do with doctor names behind them, at best doctors without an open mind to education in chemistry evolution aren't the best source of advice for advances in skincare.

      Aside from this note, as I mentioned earlier, the website seems to be indirect promotion for something else.

      Smiles,

      Brandon

      Delete
  62. I often have really dry flakey eyelids.I have tried all kinds of eye creams but still have this problem,and they are very sensitive,going red and sore and reacting to some creams.Would the FECC be something that might help?Or can I put another one of your products around my eyes?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi :-) If flakiness is your main concern, I would suggest Hylamide SubQ Anti-Age around the eyes. FECC is for ageing that is only specific to the eyes. Flakiness is general across the skin and non-specific-to-eye products work better for these concerns.

      Delete
    2. I am sorry. I just realized you were referring to eyelids. FECC would actually be ideal and so would possibly Neck Elasticity Catalyst (NEC) to improve upper-eyelid elasticity (NEC is what i use).

      Sorry for the confusion. :-)

      Delete
  63. Would the FECC be good for dry,sensitive ,flakey eyelids? I have tried many eye creams nut still have this problem.Or is there another of your products I could put around my eyes to help this problem?
    I hope you are still answering questions!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry,seem to have posted twice!

      Delete
  64. Thank you for the in depth answers. I wanted to know if you had any products for dandruff? My husband has dandruff which has become somewhat resistant to ketoconazole, tar or any other traditional anti dandruff product. Any product that can soothe an itchy, flaky scalp would be helpful as well

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Tanzin :-) At the moment, we don't have anything that can address dandruff at this stage. There will be developments in 2016 :-)

      Delete
  65. This has been fascinating reading, and I have since invested in NEC with the intention of using it on my upper eyelid, and the Grow Gorgeous shampoo and conditioner. I have also changed slightly how I use the products I have - CAIS and (a small amount) of MMHC followed by Sub-Q Anti-Age. I'm glad to add the latter back in as it has such good effects. Those will all go round the eye too, followed by FECC underneath and NEC on top!

    All topped off with HV in the morning.

    Reading this has also suggested to me that adding ELAN in the evening might be overdoing things, so I think I will keep it for an occasional booster rather than every night.

    Thanks again Brandon for all this excellent information. I add my appreciation of Tara, who sent me three full-sized products when she didn't reply promptly to an email I sent her. Such good service! (mind you, it also turned out to be great marketing as one was Fountain.HA, which has now become a regular part of my routine and I'm on my fifth bottle!)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Tricia :-) Thank you for this much trust in DECIEM.

      The only change I would suggest is the application of FECC before SubQ Anti-Age. :-)

      On Fountain HA, we're launching an exclusive Molecule called 10X HA Molecule which offers 500mg of a 10,000 Da weight of a silver ear mushroom derived HA. This molecule is launching at Space NK exclusively in January.

      With big smiles,

      Brandon

      Delete
  66. Hi,
    I would like to ask if using cu-peptides as in CAIS, would cause unwanted hair growth on face, since cu-peptides are known to stimulate it. And another question is whether using ascorbic acid and niacinamide together degrades the efficacy of both, or it is completely okay. Thank you very much.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi :-) CAIS contains GHK-Cu. The variation called AHK-Cu can counter-act hair loss based on some studies but it definitely would not stimulate unnatural growth of excess hair in anyway.

      The combination of Ascorbic Acid and Nicainamde will very slightly affect the efficacy of each but it also forms an antioxidant network that makes both more sustainable, rendering the net effect better. Our ELAN first edition actually combined these two with selenium and zinc for this network. We have since made this formula ever better by including direct Superoxide Dismutase which has allowed us to exclude Niacinamde, Zinc and Selenium.

      Smiles,

      Brandon

      Delete
  67. Caroline

    Thank you for arranging this post/thread with Brandon. It has been a uniquely wonderful experience that I and my friends have enjoyed immensely, being able to get so much information 'from the horses mouth'. If only you could arrange a clairvoyant to ask Coco Channel about fragrance...

    Oh, and I think a few of us might be a little 'in love' with Brandon now. And DECIEM.

    ReplyDelete
  68. very interesting, thank you. I do have quite a few Deceim products. I remember years ago using copper peptides creams and that we had to go carefully with them in order for the skin to adjust. I also remember that they shouldn't be used with another active and I can't remember if it was retain A or vit C. At the moment I use a c serum in the morning and retain A at night. How would CAIS fit into this routine"?
    Many thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi :-) In the past, most formulas that claim had copper peptides either had variations or it was unstable. Copper peptides don't need the skin to adjust. They are part of our tissues. Please apply at least 30 seconds before Vitamin C or A and never after them. :-)

      Delete
  69. Hi please can you tell me how CAIS interacts with retin A ( which I use at night) and vit c serum ( which I use in the morning)?? I seem to remember that copper peptides shouldn't be mixed with another active but I can't remember which one! I'm seriously considering buying but only if I can still use those other 2 actives!

    ReplyDelete
  70. "a man who by his own admission will use 597 words when one will suffice" that is funny... and predictable. Brandon is Canadian, Canadians repeat themselves about million time, while you got it from the first time :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am Canadian and have never heard that one before! Could you repeat it? ;-) Very proud that this brand hails from my country. Well done! I just bought the Hydration Vaccine and really like it. Have just done a big spend of skincare stuff but can't wait to really dive into this brand in the new year!

      Delete
    2. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. :-)

      Delete
    3. I think I missed one repetition. Thank you :-)

      Delete
  71. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  72. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Caroline...Do you have any thoughts on the following reference?
    Hyaluronic Acid – Yes, Size Does Matter! | BareFacedTruth ...
    barefacedtruth.com/2015/03/31/hyaluronic-acid-yes-size-does-matter/
    Mar 31, 2015 - Good-Bad-Ugly Reviews · Stem Cell ... According to another study, low molecular weight HA may also play a role in breast cancer metastasis.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Brandon has already replied to this above, at length. See his answer to the same question from I Heart Beauty.

      Delete
  74. Dear Brandon,

    I am two days late, so probably wouldn't get a reply. But in future ever if you read it I would like to clarify a thing about LVCE. I am post grad in chemistry (loved organic chem) so my question is little bit on the technical side. I see this is an ester based cleanser. You say it has no oil, but aren't oil just complicated form for esters? The directions also indicate that it is a water soluble (rinse with water) but 1st ingredient is Ethylhexanoate ester. Per my knowledge I know only basic esters are water soluble and their solubility decrease as they get bigger and hence oils (complicates esters) are not soluble in water. But Ethylhexanoate shouldn't be that water soluble either as it is 6th (methyl....hexyl) and hence quite big ester. So would you define LVCE as teeny weeny bit more water soluble but in the end an oil based cleanser? I just like cleansers to be water soluble and that is why wanted to clarify, maybe this product as more in it to make it that way.

    Regards
    Parul

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not a chemist - but neither is Brandon, by the way. What Susan says about makes sense to me as a non-expert: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ie/2010/08/esters-cetearyl-ethylhexanoate.html
      According to her, cetearyl ethylhexanoate is not water soluble. Anyway, from what I understand, esters are usually volatile and that would explain the described lightness of the product, and the evaporation of a stain that French Fancy is describing below. Esters are used in dry oil sprays, including sunscreens.

      Delete
    2. Hi unknown :-)

      LVCE is not a cleanser really. We don't believe in cleansers. For people who do not use makeup, our suggestion always is to simply clean gently with water. LVCE is positioned as a cleaner to remove makeup very efficiently. Modern esters are far more able to solubilize makeup than oils and they are more understood and purified than complex oils (since no one uses or likes mineral oil these days).

      LVCE is not water soluble. Our position is that it can be used with or without water to remove makeup. This position is because LVCE is so incredibly fast-acting that by the time water is introduced in the cleaning step, LVCE will have already solubilized makeup. We never suggested that LVCE is water soluble but that it is compatible with water cleansing.

      Please note LVCE contains a very small amount (<2%) of an amazonian oil for a non-cleaning purpose.

      Smiles,

      Brandon

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    3. Thanks for replying! Couldn't figure out a way to put my name while posting so signed off using my name. Thanks again for all the explanation, it makes sense now :) And sorry you had to reply twice (below as well) to the same thing because of my "unknown" name. Cheers, Parul

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  75. Hello Parul. I'm not a chemist, or even a scientist of any description but regarding your question above about LVCE being an oil based cleanser anyway, here is my own anecdote about that (read below) and to summarise:- if it is an oil based product, why did it evaporate from the matt painted wall of my bathroom without leaving an oil/grease stain?Perhaps you could conduct your own experiment?!

    "I really found it to be a disconcerting and not entirely pleasant product to use. It has a slight ‘avocado’-ish smell to me and it feels slightly oily. I used to be very concerned about the ‘residue’ left on my skin However, one day I dropped an open bottle of LVCE in my bathroom and when it bounced it splashed across a wall that has matt emulsion on it. The ‘grease’ marks it left behind were hideous and I actually assumed I would have to re-prime the wall and paint over it. However, there is now no sign of the marks at all and it has indeed evaporated (“If left alone without other topical treatments on top, this cushion will disappear and actually balance (not trigger or reduce) natural sebum production.”). Unlike the residue of an oil-based cleanser that I accidentally splashed on the wall and that has remained."

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    Replies
    1. Thank you for highlighting this remarkable and relevant observation from earlier. I have also provided further comments to this view earlier :-)

      Delete
  76. Thank you Sara and French Fancy. I can understand that it might evaporate but water solubility is a completely different thing. If you are rinsing something with water it needs to have something that makes it water soluble or else how can you rinse it? - Parul

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    1. Hello: I have provided a more detailed response above. Water compatibility is very different from water solubility. We do not suggest using LVCE if no makeup (or heavy sunscreen) is used. As LVCE acts extremely quickly, it is compatible with a water-cleaning regimen. LVCE is not soluble in water.

      As a separate note, the presence of Ethoxydiglycol would actually allow a small amount of water to seem "soluble" in the LVCE formula but the reason for its inclusion is not such. It is intended to enhance penetration of follow-up skincare.

      Smiles,

      Brandon

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  77. Thank you everyone for this incredible engagement. I believe I have now answered all the questions. Signing off now.

    Onward smiles,

    Brandon

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  78. After reading brands endorsing their own products, and proving why other brands get the science wrong or how they blatantly lie to their customers I am more confused than before.
    Pure water is best for cleansing face? Vit C in non-water silicone products doesn't work because it would require extermely well hydrated skin, but NIOD's non-water vit C solution works just great. Oh, and btw vit C is not such a great antioxidant, and used just for glow, noted (then why does it even matter whether it's converted into ascorbic acid- ascorbyl glucoside would add glow just as well as L-AA).
    As for "you don't need anti-aging ingredients, copper peptides suffice"- I remain sceptical.
    Or "we have the best, non-irritating retinoid": la roche posay sells redermic R with Retinol linoleate , non-irritating retinoid. Avene sells Eluage, triacneal and physiolift with retinaldehyde- same as before, non-irritating vit A derivative. Other brands use non-irritating hydrogenated retinol H10. Everybody reinvents the wheel

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  79. Merci Caroline for keeping the thread going. You operate a first class ethical educational blog. No coal in your stocking!

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  80. Argh I'm sure I'm too late but after reading through ALL of Brandon's responses I just have 2 questions if either Brandon/Caroline can answer:
    1- Does CAIS have to be stored in the fridge - if yes then why?
    2- how long does CAIS last before it 'expires' or needs to be replaced?

    Many thanks
    Christina

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    Replies
    1. This is the response I received from Tara at Deciem:

      doesn't need to be kept in the fridge. New formula is 2 liquids. If you have old formula, a powder and a liquid, then it must be kept in the fridge to ensure the Copper Peptides do not degrade and stay active.

      2) Once mixed, CAIS should be used within 3 months.

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  81. What a brilliant blog (thank you Caroline) and marvellous set of questions with super answers from Brandon. I'm off to Victoria Health now to buy CAIS, MMHC and maybe Deciem to buy Hylamide SubQ anti-age even though I feel that just having had my 75th birthday I'm too late. I'm not surprised that Gill at Victoria Health loves Brandon so much and look forward to new products next year. Wonder if a moisturiser/night cream or something like that will be on the cards. Anyway, thank you again Caroline -- and Brandon of course. Season's greetings.

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  82. Caroline, thank you so much for putting Deciem into the spotlight! I hope that Deciem is strong enough to stay on the market. I can imagine that most of the well known prestigious companies hate a newcomer like this and everything to destroy it. I wish all the best to Brandon and his team. I love Hand Chemistry and now start loving CAIS ( 've been using it for a week 🙃)

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